Warsaw Insider: Ukraine’s Ambassador to Poland Speaks on Kyiv’s Relationship With its Neighbor – Part 3

Part I
Part II

In this third part of an exclusive interview, Ukraine’s new ambassador to Poland, Vasyl Bodnar, delves deep into the most sensitive issues shaping Polish-Ukrainian relations today.

From the difficult history of the Volhynia massacres and ongoing diplomatic strides in exhumations to the influence of Poland’s presidential election on bilateral ties, Bodnar offers insights on both the challenges and promising prospects ahead.

With the 2025 Polish presidential campaign in the background, he reflects on the evolving dynamics between the two nations and emphasizes the importance of understanding and cooperation as Ukraine fights for its future.

MK: Let’s focus on Polish-Ukrainian relations. One of the issues that has dominated the Polish public opinion for a longer period of time, aside from the war, is the matter of Volhynia. For the past few months, we have observed an increase in diplomatic efforts. Not long ago, a working group meeting was held in Lviv to address exhumations. You also participated in that meeting. However, there are skeptical voices in the Polish public opinion – some observers and commentators doubt that we are truly on the path to resolving this issue and that we are seeing progress. Where do we actually stand?

VB: We are not standing still, we are moving forward. I arrived in Warsaw on Nov. 24, and just two days later, Foreign Minister Sybiha visited, during which an agreement or declaration between the foreign ministers was signed, politically opening the way for cooperation in this area. Then, the first meeting of the working group on exhumations and historical issues took place. The first permits for exhumations have already been issued. Currently, we are reviewing additional applications. They must meet certain procedural requirements, but we have already agreed on what is necessary to carry this out as quickly as possible. We are preparing for the next meetings and are getting closer to starting work in the field. Once that happens, we will provide updates.

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MK: What is the time perspective?

VB: I think the perspective is quite close and visible for both societies, but this is directly handled by the ministers of culture of both countries. It is a strong and close cooperation established through an agreement between Prime Minister Tusk and President Zelensky. I wouldn’t want to go beyond my competences, as it could seem awkward in front of my colleagues, and the Ukrainian Minister of Culture happens to be my fellow diplomat, but we try to communicate our achievements through the ministries of culture. We will inform about what we have accomplished and the permits issued for grave searches or exhumations. We have agreed on the goals we set and the timeline for achieving them. It will happen faster than before.

MK: The Volhynia issue had a negative impact on the political climate and on mutual relations between Poland and Ukraine. In Poland, it became a political topic, and Russian propaganda also took advantage of it. Why, in the Ambassador’s opinion, was it so difficult and time-consuming to reach an agreement on this matter?

VB: It was a long road. We tried to find a solution back in 2019-2020 and reached some agreements, a few permits were issued. Unfortunately, the war and the conditions currently prevailing in Ukraine prevented us from fully implementing them. Now we are fully engaged, with the involvement of the foreign ministers, the culture minister, and political will. And now, it is a matter that must be addressed. We also understand its Christian dimension. Every family should have the right to a dignified burial for the victims of this tragedy, the Volhynia massacre. There are also other graves that require proper honoring, such as those related to the Polish-Bolshevik War, World War II, and Katyn. There are still many things to discuss, but you will see for yourselves that we are moving forward. The results will be visible quite soon.

MK: So, I understand that we are talking about a systemic, comprehensive solution to the issue?

VB: Of course, we will systematically engage institutions to cooperate with each other, so that details and bureaucracy do not negatively affect bilateral relations and are not used politically. I understand how sensitive this issue is for Polish society, which is why we are working on making it formal, not political.

MK: President Zelensky, during his visit to Warsaw, sparked controversy in an interview with Polish media. He referred to Karol Nawrocki, Karol Nawrocki is a civic candidate supported by PiS. Some in Poland see this as an involvement in the ongoing Polish presidential election campaign. How would you, Ambassador, comment on this?

VB: The Polish people, both women and men, are choosing their president. Ukraine is not involved in elections in Poland. President Zelensky simply responded to a question regarding a statement made by one of the candidates that concerned Ukraine. This is not any form of criticism, stance, or involvement in the election campaign. It was only about something obvious -  if Ukraine is not defended, Poland will have to defend itself. Today, even small support for Ukraine can help achieve peace on favorable terms and prevent this war from spreading. This is the main message that President Zelensky conveyed, and it was not related to the ongoing election campaign.

MK: Does the election campaign affect the relationship between countries?

VB: Communication between the leaders of Ukraine and Poland is maintained on many levels. Of course, the political campaign is noticeable, but it does not negatively affect our relations. In January, President Zelensky attended the 80th anniversary commemoration of the liberation of the German concentration camp Auschwitz. We thank Poland for its excellent organization, efforts, and for drawing the attention of the entire world to the tragedy of the murder of prisoners at Auschwitz: Jews, Poles, Ukrainians. Now, this is happening again. In the occupied areas of Ukraine, where the Russians are killing civilians and throwing them into mass graves, as we saw in places like Bucha, Irpin, and Lyman. This only confirms that we are dealing with another killing machine, but on a different scale and form. Russia is using rockets and drones against Ukrainians. This is also a form of extermination, and the world must respond, or it will repeat itself.

MK: Almost 3 years ago, after the start of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, we witnessed an enormous outburst of empathy and brotherhood in Polish-Ukrainian relations. However, after some time, certain conflicts began to emerge. From the Ukrainian perspective, how would you assess these relations, both on a political level and a human level?

VB: To be honest, 2022 completely changed my attitude toward Poland. Previously, I used to argue about various topics with my Polish colleagues. Now, that’s no longer the case, we talk about entirely different matters. Now, we thank you, because entire generations of Ukrainians will be grateful for saving their lives, for the assistance to the state, and for the survival of the entire nation. The road to salvation also went through Poland, Polish homes, and Polish hearts. Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians were welcomed by Polish families. We remember all of this, as well as the humanitarian and military aid. Poland is still a leader in terms of the amount of tanks and other military equipment that is still being used in Ukraine. The year 2022 was a turning point in our relations. Of course, people got used to many things, emotions subsided, and other daily matters arose - elections, various statements - but no one in Ukraine wants to say anything bad about Poland. We will live with this, and we must make good use of the capital built on positive emotions. I heard from one of my Polish colleagues that the great evil that came from the East was met with great good from the West. This will remain with us forever, while emotions, polls, and public opinion assessments will remain the responsibility of politicians.

MK: Perhaps the conflicts arise from the fact that, contrary to popular belief, Ukrainians and Poles, as societies, do not fully understand each other, and there is a lack of dialogue, including media dialogue? Certain issues and symbols are perceived differently by both countries and societies.

VB: Of course, this is necessary, but it will never be enough. When I was the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, we organized a forum for social dialogue under the patronage of the foreign ministers. It involved historians, journalists, and scholars. They discussed both the issues that unite and divide us—an open dialogue aimed at mutual understanding. Then the participants communicated this within their societies. Public opinion leaders simply need to talk to each other. Another matter is understanding sensitive issues, such as the Volhynian massacre or today’s war in Ukraine and the defense of the country, which greatly captures the attention of Ukrainians. Of course, there are also political disputes in Ukraine and figures seeking to pursue their political goals, which are felt, but more things unite us than divide us. Difficult issues need to be discussed; nothing should be imposed, but rather explained in an open dialogue. I understand that many things are unacceptable in Poland, just as many things are incomprehensible in Ukrainian society. We must continue our joint work, especially now, when I hope we have reached a breakthrough on difficult matters.

MK: Some experts claim that Polish-Ukrainian relations are sinusoidal, alternating between periods of carnival and dispute. How do you think these relations will look in the future?

VB: Let’s look at the history of Ukrainian-Polish relations. We talk about this today, when time is passing faster, and what once took decades is now happening over months. Ukraine and Poland are neighbors, and each has its own vision, life, traditions, and values. We agree on some things, and we disagree on others. For 300 years, we were divided and tried to be controlled. Today, we are together, and together we are standing against the evil from the east, which is Russian aggression. The balance of power in Europe has shifted, and even countries that traditionally viewed Ukraine’s integration with the West skeptically now have a different attitude. To notice this, one only needs to look at the support for Ukraine’s integration with the EU, the imposition of sanctions on Russia, and the military and financial support for Ukraine. Western values are moving eastward and expanding the zone of stability. Of course, we are in the middle of a war, but when peace comes, and if the border between the West and Russia is drawn along Ukraine’s border with Russia, perhaps the Russian system will change, and in the new conditions, it won’t be as aggressive as it is now.